Aubrey W Bogard
Member
Reged: 02/22/05
Posts: 766
Loc: USA
|
|
I see that the Warrior is no longer on the "Choosing a 1911 for Duty Use" recommended list. I'm curious what issues might have evolved to account for this (?).
--------------------
Aubrey
|
Tim Lau
Administrator
Reged: 12/22/04
Posts: 2639
Loc: Southern California
|
|
Hilton is out of pocket at the moment, so I will answer this one. We began comparing notes on the Warriors that Hilton and I have come across over the past year or so and discovered that neither of us have encountered one that has run reliably out of the box. The issues stem from a variety of causes, to include (but is not limited to) chamber dimensions, feed ramp/barrel throat geometry, ignition parts quality (or lack thereof), extractor issues, and slide stop problems make the gun more trouble than it is worth. This does not mean the Warrior cannot be made into a pretty nice blaster, but the work involved can be (and is usually) extensive. To top it all off, the annoying blackened stainless parts, sometimes including the slide and/or frame, further limits refinishing options.
--------------------
10-8 Consulting, LLC
|
Aubrey W Bogard
Member
Reged: 02/22/05
Posts: 766
Loc: USA
|
|
Thanks Tim; you pretty much confirmed my suspicions. It's a shame, as the "Warrior" at least comes without the Series II "improvements".
--------------------
Aubrey
|
Ed Lawrence
Member
Reged: 12/29/06
Posts: 283
Loc: TX
|
|
Tim,
I am glad that you guys updated your reference with regard to the Warrior since many people (myself included) place a high premium on your articles and recommendations.
Since I bought my Kimber Warrior and started tracking the issue, I have noticed more and more people mention problems with the gun. From what I ahve been able to put together, it seems to be getting worse over time. I had one well known gunsmith tell me that he believes that there is something seriously wrong with that model.
My Kimber Warrior was the embodiment of many of the problems you listed. The main problems I experienced were failures to feed with ball ammo and a slide that locked open when there were still rounds in the magazine.
Since I bought the gun it has had the slidestop replaced with a Wilson Bulletproof model that had a detent cut in; has had the extractor, firing pin, and the firing pin stop replaced with Ed Brown Hardcore parts, been to one gunsmith twice and another gunsmith once. After that point it has seen about 800ish rounds through it spread over 3 shooting sessions (using CMC powermags with Tripp followers) and had about 3 failures to feed. This always happened after it is at least 150 rounds into a shooting session. Twice were with Blazer Brass which I have heard is of lower quality, and once with Black Hills factory hardball, which is as high quality as you can get.
Since then Larry Vickers has readjusted the extractor during the 1911 Operators class a few weeks ago, and I have gone from a 17lb recoil spring to an 18lb--since the slide almost closed during a failure to feed with the Black Hills round and just needed a tap to close.
I have not had a chance to fire more than 100 rounds through the gun since the last round of fixes, so even though it is 100% at this point, it is really too early to say. And I don't want to say how much I have sunk into this gun in parts and gunsmithing.
But in spite of all this, I still like the gun, especially now that it seems to be running almost 100%, but I would be hard pressed to recommend it.
|
Tim Lau
Administrator
Reged: 12/22/04
Posts: 2639
Loc: Southern California
|
|
Kimber has been plagued with the FTF and/or failure to go into battery problems for a long time. One thing a gunsmith or savvy armorer can do to help alleviate this problem (among a slew of other fixes that are many times necessary) is to check the headspace and ream the chamber to SAAMI spec. Kimber chambers are typically so tight that I have to pound the pilot in with a mallet.
Ed, if your smiths have not done this to your Kimber, it is likely the cause of your remaining Feeding/Chambering issues.
Tim
--------------------
10-8 Consulting, LLC
|
Larry Vickers
Member
Reged: 07/23/07
Posts: 47
|
|
I agree with what is being said here - Ken Hackathorn and I have seen the same exact issues that Tim is mentioning - the Warrior has fleas straight from the box
The worst one I have seen to date was a gun that Ned Christiansen and I both worked on at different times and was still a jamamatic - when that happens to you that gun needs to go away
In addition I always felt the Warrior was way overpriced for what it is; combine that with some obvious problems and it screams stay away
Cheers
Larry Vickers
www.vickerstactical.com
|
Bob Martin
Member
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 47
Loc: OH
|
|
Is there a rough date when the Warriors started showing problems?
I have one I bought late in 05. When new it would lock open with ammo left in the magazine, but only with Power mags. I took care of that and it hasn't been a problem since. I have seen an occasional malfunction with my reloads but none with factory loads.
I've been wanting to get another 1911 w/rail and was considering another Warrior; now I think I'll wait.
|
A.Lombardo
Member
Reged: 02/19/05
Posts: 104
Loc: SC
|
|
I am not convinced that Kimber's magwell location is always correctly located/broached in relation to the slide lock and or feedramp.
--------------------
"INTEGRITAS !"
My Custom 1911 and Knife BLOG!
http://thearsenalofdemocracy.blogspot.com/
|
Tim Lau
Administrator
Reged: 12/22/04
Posts: 2639
Loc: Southern California
|
|
Bob,
The symptoms you describe are not uncommon at all with the Warriors. It is not the magazine that is causing false lockbacks with your pistol. The slide stop is unstable, and may also need reprofiling to clear it for rounds left in the magazine AND the magazine itself. EVERY Kimber I've come across needs its chamber reamed.
As for the magwell dimensions, I can't speak for all of them, but the ones I have measured were dimensionally consistent. They still didn't work out of the box, but at least they had THAT going for them...
Tim
--------------------
10-8 Consulting, LLC
|
Ed Lawrence
Member
Reged: 12/29/06
Posts: 283
Loc: TX
|
|
Tim,
The second gunsmith to work on the gun made sure that the chamber was up to spec. I believe we even checked it in Larry Vicker’s 1911 Operator class. It was one of the things that Larry walked us through.
I can see why the Kimber Warrior is popular--it is a good looking gun with nice asthetics, it is based on a gun that is supposed to be reasonably accurate and reliable, and it has the MEU SOC mistique going for it. I did research before buying it and knew it had some issues, but I have been hearing about many more since I got the gun.
The funniest thing is before I got the gun fixed I called Kimber and mentioned that I was having the slide lock open with rounds still in the magazine the person immediatley offered to send me one of their "imporved" slide stops. So I asked her if they had an improved slidestop, why weren't they installing them in all their guns. She replied not all of their guns needed it. 
|
Tim Harvey
Member
Reged: 12/21/05
Posts: 174
Loc: Duluth, Ga
|
|
I had my Chamber cut to the proper size and havent had any issues since then, I always have my smith do that right out of the box, it just cuts down on problems later on
|
Justin Moore
Member
Reged: 04/19/05
Posts: 177
|
|
Quote:
The funniest thing is before I got the gun fixed I called Kimber and mentioned that I was having the slide lock open with rounds still in the magazine the person immediatley offered to send me one of their "imporved" slide stops. So I asked her if they had an improved slidestop, why weren't they installing them in all their guns. She replied not all of their guns needed it.
That's about as funny as them telling me that the external extractor guns didn't suffer from an inherent design flaw, and that the reason they switched BACK was solely due to cost issues.
|
Ed Lawrence
Member
Reged: 12/29/06
Posts: 283
Loc: TX
|
|
Yeah, Justin,
I fear if many American companies follow that outlook, in just a few decades, most of the people in this country will be working in call centers for people to call in from abroad.
I forgot to mention that when disassembling my Kimber Warrior in Larry Vicker's 1911 Operators class I discovered that the plunger tube was loose and will need a gunsmith to fix it. Though Larry did perform many fixes on guns in the class, this particular fix was beyond the scope and the time available in class.
Now the question is do I get the gunsmith to just fix the old one or is it much more complicated to have him install a new non-MIM one while he is at it?
|
Matt Edwards
Member
Reged: 03/07/05
Posts: 246
|
|
Ed,
What do you think about a GLOCK! 
Matt
|
Denny Hansen
Member
Reged: 02/02/05
Posts: 219
Loc: Prescott Valley, AZ
|
|
Ed,
Personally, MIM or non-MIM does not concern me all that much, but I would replace the entire plunger rather than try to fix it to make sure there is enough material on the part to properly stake it.
--------------------
Stay low and watch your back.
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
